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Opinions on Severus Snape?

Poll #2060748 Snape, Snape, Sneverus Snape

Your Thoughts on Snape?

Fucking hate him, that bullying, Lily-stalking jerk.
4(22.2%)
He was a hero and his love for Lily was so romantic!
1(5.6%)
He's... fine.
6(33.3%)
YOU ARE AN ADULT WOMAN WITH A FULL-TIME JOB STOP WASTING YOUR TIME WITH POLLS LIKE THIS??
1(5.6%)
Snape, Snape, Severus Snape. Dumbledore!
6(33.3%)


So paranye and I wanted to do a fan-made episode of Drunk History, but upon failing to come up with a topic, she suggested that we instead have a Drunk Argument about one of the few things on this planet we actively disagree on - Severus Snape. Who I despise, and she is rather fond of.

If you have any opinions, on either end of the love/hate scale, please let me know. Because we will be discussing them. Drunk. While yelling at each other on Skype. :D

Comments

( 12 Thoughts — Thoughts? )
daria234
Jan. 5th, 2017 07:04 am (UTC)
LOL that's great - can you combine? Like if Drunk History were a thing in the Potterverse that the generation younger than Harry all liked, and Drunk History did an episode on the lesser known figures in the war against Voldemort and Snape was one of them?
rosalui
Jan. 5th, 2017 11:41 pm (UTC)
Bwahaha, you mean like pretend that we're wizards discussing Snape as an actual historical figure? That sounds hilarious, but we'd inevitably devolve into argument anyway....
daria234
Jan. 6th, 2017 12:24 am (UTC)
Yes lol - it'd be funny to see later generations of wizards drunkenly argue over Snape ;)
rosalui
Jan. 6th, 2017 12:45 am (UTC)
Omg, I am honestly tempted? But we'd be using so many outside/JKR-said type sources that I'm not sure it'd work.

STILL. This is an amazing idea. :D
kohikari
Jan. 5th, 2017 07:06 am (UTC)
alan rickmaaan T_T
As a kid reading the books for the first time, Snape and Malfoy made me SO MAD. I wanted to jump into the story just to scream at them, and possibly throw things.

In retrospect, I still agree with my younger self that Severus Snape goes on the list of Dumbledore's Greatest Professorial (Dis)Appointments--that man obviously hated children, hated teaching children, and putting him in the empty Potions position only made strategic sense if you prioritize keeping your double agent close over the education of an entire generation of your people. I like Dumbledore, really I do, but sometimes he royally sucked at his job. Can't Snape have worked in the library or the infirmary or something?

As a person...I kinda sympathize with his "Freudian excuse". His family life was abusive, Lily Evans was potentially his only childhood friend, and James and Sirius were horrible bullies. The Marauders may have been likeable, but they were also assholes, and I'm thinking Snape can't have been their only target. Having been tormented doesn't justify tormenting others yourself, but it isn't all that uncommon a response.

His childish, petty behavior towards Harry and all the other students was inexcusable, and probably irreparably damaged the Potions educations of hundreds if not thousands of wizarding children. As head of Slytherin House he significantly contributed to the over-the-top Gryffindor-versus-Slytherin climate that must have been detrimental to the education and social experiences of just about everyone attending the school.

But his actions in the war make him a hero. His information saved lives; he personally saved Harry's life multiple times. He was a loyal soldier of Dumbledore's, for whatever that's worth.

TL;DR Snape was a miserable asshole who should never have been given a teaching job, but who should nevertheless be remembered as a war hero, if an EXTREMELY flawed one. I...kinda like him? Just not when he's aimed at children.

(I'm less mad at Draco these days--he was an utter brat, but his situation also sucked, and when it came down to it he was incapable of actually hurting Dumbledore, no matter whose life was on the line if he failed. He probably grew up to be a much more mature and reasonable person than Snape did.)
mnkyjnkieang
Jan. 5th, 2017 03:21 pm (UTC)
Re: alan rickmaaan T_T
^^ All of this. I am nodding so hard rn.
rosalui
Jan. 5th, 2017 11:39 pm (UTC)
Re: alan rickmaaan T_T
I AM COMPILING THESE OPINIONS FOR US TO DISCUSS :D
paranye
Jan. 5th, 2017 07:54 pm (UTC)
Re: alan rickmaaan T_T
I, the above-mentioned Snape fan, am also nodding. That's an excellent summary and actually matches my own views pretty closely. As much as I like him as a character - and I liked him from the very start, even before I'd finished the first book, which I think is fairly unusual - I will never deny that he was a massive asshole in many ways.

(Though if I remember it while drunk I'll probably argue that he might have been a much better teacher if he had only been teaching NEWT-level Potions students.)

And DON'T EVEN GET ME STARTED on the ridiculously damaging nature of the Hogwarts House system. That's my pet HP rant. The person who burned that freaking hat would be the greatest hero wizarding Britain had ever seen.
rosalui
Jan. 5th, 2017 11:38 pm (UTC)
Re: alan rickmaaan T_T
I AM NOT STARTING WITH YOU HERE SO I CAN SAVE MY CAPSLOCKING FOR WHEN I HAVE DRUNK TOO MUCH ALCOHOL TBH :DDD

But I don't have such a big problem with the sorting hat honestly like they'd be in different dorms anyway and those dorms would have different traits and interests inevitably attributed to them soooo

OH GOD HAVE WE FOUND THE TOPIC OF DRUNK ARGUMENTS: ROUND 2
paranye
Jan. 6th, 2017 01:30 am (UTC)
Re: alan rickmaaan T_T
OH YES WE HAVE BECAUSE THAT HAT IS WORSE THAN VOLDEMORT THERE I SAID IT.

This is would actually be a proper Drunk Debate as opposed to a Drunk Argument because it's less a matter of pure subjective taste than the Snape Thing. I mean, I don't expect that by force of argument I could ever make you like Snape, any more than by force of argument you could make me like avocado. You could talk for hours about how healthy and tasty and great it is but to me it will always be ICKY GREEN SNOTFRUIT GET OUT OF MY BAGEL AVOCADO JESUS CHRIST. We'll certainly have an interesting discussion (well, to us, at least) about the moral and emotional perspectives that inform or explain our preference, but it's very unlikely that either of us will actually change our minds, so it's an argument that will probably never end as long as we live.

(Aw now I'm imagining us at like ninety years old sneaking booze into our nursing homes to have a drunk argument about Snape like old times <3)

On the Sorting Question, however, I would be IN IT TO WIN IT. By the power of Rational and Articulate Drunken Shrieking I will prove that the Hogwarts sorting system is fundamentally awful or die trying because it's OBJECTIVELY TRUE.
rosalui
Jan. 6th, 2017 02:50 am (UTC)
Re: alan rickmaaan T_T
AVOCADO IS AMAZING, WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOUR TASTE BUDS???

DRUNK ARGUMENTS #3: THE AVOCADONING

I actually agree though, I'm very vague on my approval of the sorting system in a general "I get why it's problematic but... it's... fine idk" sort of way? So you would probably sweep the floor with me because you would have all these hard and fast facts and I'd just be like "yeah but... it's... fine..."

I bet if we filmed a video of us at age ninety, drunk and screaming about Snape, we would get literally famous. Invited onto Ellen. Obama would be there, etc. *marks it onto calendar*

Okay so we clearly need to work out the Logistics of this next time we talk, and then maybe The Battle itself can take place the time after? Yes? Yes.
rosalui
Jan. 6th, 2017 12:05 am (UTC)
Re: alan rickmaaan T_T
THIS IS SUCH GREAT META!

OH GOD, Alan Rickman is definitely the loveliest in the world. It's part of why we're definitely arguing about book!Snape. :D

I like Dumbledore too, but I agree that he Fucked Up in a lot of places and should have, like, kept a closer eye on some of the goings-on in his school, lol. Honestly I also sort of think that it's one of those things that started out pretty simply - nasty teacher! wise headmaster! and JKR never really expected a million people to get super meta with it and blame Dumbledore for everything, lol. XD

THE FREUDIAN EXCUSE IS THE THING I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH, I THINK? AMONG MANY OTHER THINGS Because like... I get that a kid from an abusive home would be dealing with a lot of stuff, and potentially not dealing with it well, and that's very understandable. But as an adult he never changed, so. I don't care anymore? Like. Lots of people get abused. They don't all join a murderous hate group and grow up to bully children. IDK.

Also like... speaking as a Sirius fan... he also had an abusive home life and I don't for a second try to use that to justify his bullying Snape with his friends, because it's not justifiable, so I don't get how Snape's home life is an excuse for joining his own circle of shitty friends? >.>;;;

....I SHOULD REALLY STOP or I will have no ramblings left for the actual argument, lolol.

But I'm totally with you on Malfoy! Like... I'm very meh on him in the books, but the fact that (JKR says) he apparently grew up to raise his son to be better than he'd been, and married someone very anti-blood purity and had strained contact with his parents, boosts him up a lot in my opinion.
( 12 Thoughts — Thoughts? )